tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7159579060332591141.post8880957589961173700..comments2023-12-30T00:13:46.213-05:00Comments on Abandon Image: Silent Church Women? Part 2Tia Lynnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08131181929874342944noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7159579060332591141.post-42957864854421020132008-04-09T12:41:00.000-04:002008-04-09T12:41:00.000-04:00Good question Tonya. Sorry its taken me so long to...Good question Tonya. Sorry its taken me so long to get back to you. Real life keeps getting in the way of blog time! But I tried to answer your question in the above post. I know there is more digging to do on that specific topic, but regardless of that specific verse, 1 corinthians 14:34-35 contradicts many parts of the bible, not just that one. Tia Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08131181929874342944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7159579060332591141.post-60533083352647781862008-04-08T13:47:00.000-04:002008-04-08T13:47:00.000-04:00Oh. My question was, how do we know that 1 Cor 11...Oh. My question was, how do we know that 1 Cor 11: 1-16 is talking about public worship?<BR/><BR/>Because this passage heavily influences the interpretation of 1 Cor 14 and 1 Tim 2. For me, at least.Tonyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03997440256348249766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7159579060332591141.post-6173871409669904332008-04-08T12:43:00.000-04:002008-04-08T12:43:00.000-04:00Okay, I have a second and I was just going over th...Okay, I have a second and I was just going over these passages. This is a question. I am NOT baiting. I want to know what you do with this. This is a stricter C view than I normaly hold, I am sure, but I am trying to study this objectively.<BR/><BR/>In 1 Cor chapter 11, we do not find evidence that Paul is specifically talking about public worship until vs. 17. In fact, he is talking about eating and other things that are part of every day life outside the actual assembly. Before vs. 17, is it possible that he is speaking of women praying or prophesying at home or with other women, and not in the general assembly? I know it is generally thought that these instructions have to do with public worship, but I am not seeing that evidenced here. Any insights?<BR/><BR/>In chapter 14, my NIV translates the passage this way. (start with vs. 32) <BR/><BR/>"The spirits of the prophets are subject to the control of the prophets. For God is not a God of disorder, but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."<BR/><BR/>If you look at it from this POV, it looks like women should not speak at all in church, even to prophesy or pray aloud. What do you think?Tonyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03997440256348249766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7159579060332591141.post-47250748965923682842008-04-08T12:08:00.000-04:002008-04-08T12:08:00.000-04:00Amen to that! and Deal!Amen to that! and Deal!Tia Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08131181929874342944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7159579060332591141.post-69026195212944562062008-04-08T11:23:00.000-04:002008-04-08T11:23:00.000-04:00Tia, I would never dicredit evidence based on pers...Tia, I would never dicredit evidence based on personal experience. Ever. What I was trying to say (and badly) was that I think it is a good idea to evalute a postion all the more strictly if you like it. If a position appeals to me because of my experience, I try to rip it apart from the other POV (using the Bible as a plumb line) asking God to remind me of my personal biases and doing a little soul searching to make sure I'm not adopting said position just because it tickles the ear, so to speak. That was my point. I was sad because I came across as a pompus boob and if people who KNOW me were offended, then certainly those who don't know me were. It is not, and never was, my intention to fight about this, but simply to debate it (like i know you love to do) and see what is most biblically sound. I do NOT want to offend anyone unless it is unavoidable in the face of Truth, but then the problem would lie with the offendee, not the offender. It's my job as a sister in Christ to be loving and apparantly, I wasn't:). <BR/><BR/>Debate doesn't change the fact, for me, that everyone visiting here from the most hard core C to the most hard core E are more than likely my brothers and sisters in Christ whether we agree on every thing or not. However, this may be easier for me because, as you know, I don't get offended easily at all so no matter what anyone says, I assume they meant it in the nicest way possible:):):). I need to remember that there are different, highly valuable personalities here and take the rebukes when they come since they will only help me be a better sister. I, for one, want to hash this out and come away from this discussion with a deeper understanding of God, an acceptance of that which is of Him and rejection of that which isn't. If Truth can't be determined, then we all need to realize that "that too God will make clear" to us. (Romans?)That's what fellowship is about. Anyway, I am fine and I will be back "with guns blazing" as you say, only I'll try to be more diplomatic. However, I'll try to refrain from saying "Tia, you should write a book or run for president". If I do, you can slap me:):):).Tonyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03997440256348249766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7159579060332591141.post-1394457651946992232008-04-07T19:47:00.000-04:002008-04-07T19:47:00.000-04:00You'll be missed donna! Come back when you can! :)...You'll be missed donna! Come back when you can! :)Tia Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08131181929874342944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7159579060332591141.post-72251847111193556062008-04-07T18:59:00.000-04:002008-04-07T18:59:00.000-04:00Well, it's my turn to be taking off...for most of ...Well, it's my turn to be taking off...for most of April it seems...I'll be checking back in when I can. Thanks Tia Lynn for all the work and study you are putting into these posts!!!Donnavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03125404390283700448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7159579060332591141.post-55776772061883102212008-04-07T18:58:00.000-04:002008-04-07T18:58:00.000-04:00Just wanted to let you know that I'm here, but sin...Just wanted to let you know that I'm here, but since I don't know a whole lot about the different arguments and interpretations surrounding this particular verse, I'm just waiting to see how it unfolds.Elspeth https://www.blogger.com/profile/17495546895657214080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7159579060332591141.post-20811805455296653182008-04-07T17:28:00.000-04:002008-04-07T17:28:00.000-04:00I am usually a silent reader, but I wanted to comm...I am usually a silent reader, but I wanted to commend you for expending the extra effort to link to all the resources you reference. Not only does it allow the reader to dig into more information, but it shows you have intellectual integrity and credibility. I especially loved the link to greek word website. I always learn when I peruse over here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7159579060332591141.post-32323608923856004042008-04-07T16:51:00.000-04:002008-04-07T16:51:00.000-04:00Oh no Tonya!!! There’s no crying in baseball!!! (s...Oh no Tonya!!! There’s no crying in baseball!!! (see League of Their Own, movie illiterate folks). Please stay a straight shooter! I was just having trouble determining whether or not you were going to discredit any evidence that favored the egalitarian side based solely upon the fact that I have personal experiences that make that position more appealing to me or am more passionate about it than neutrally indifferent. Please, take down the logic and reasoning if it comes across flimsy! I want to be challenged and look at the evidence from every reasonable point of view out there. Your input has been tremendously valued in this debate, it keeps me on my toes! :) Love ya!Tia Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08131181929874342944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7159579060332591141.post-8208865018946358312008-04-07T16:37:00.000-04:002008-04-07T16:37:00.000-04:00I'm back from KY and catching up. These last two p...I'm back from KY and catching up. These last two posts (and the comments) are very interesting. I can't wait to see the next one. I'll reserve comment until then. Good stuff, Tia!<BR/><BR/>Giant mountain o' laundry calls. Must answer.<BR/><BR/>P.S. to everyone who was offended by my condescending tone in the comments two posts down, please read my apology there. I appreciate you guys calling me out on that. It was never my intention to offend and I am truly crushed (I cried) that I came across so badly. Please forgive. Thanks for putting up with me and please stop me if I start sounding rude again. Thanks:)!Tonyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03997440256348249766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7159579060332591141.post-76320472988810682672008-04-07T14:55:00.000-04:002008-04-07T14:55:00.000-04:00The big deal is that in plenty other places Paul p...The big deal is that in plenty other places Paul praises women for NOT being silent. I can't quote them or given the chapter/verse, but I'm sure Miss Tia can :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11953038703407913981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7159579060332591141.post-83376312464636435562008-04-07T13:34:00.000-04:002008-04-07T13:34:00.000-04:00Seems like alot of effort to make the scripture sa...Seems like alot of effort to make the scripture say something diffrent. Why is it so bad for women to be silent in church? What's the big deal?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7159579060332591141.post-82451008294326317192008-04-07T12:55:00.000-04:002008-04-07T12:55:00.000-04:00I have always held to the original language eviden...I have always held to the original language evidence to refute these words as a "universal" command. But I am unfamiliar with the details of the quotation theory. You have peaked my interest!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7159579060332591141.post-45325201841403547182008-04-06T22:31:00.000-04:002008-04-06T22:31:00.000-04:00Tia - thanks as always for the great research! I'...Tia - thanks as always for the great research! I'm reserving judgement till I read all you have to share, but this is very interesting stuff.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11953038703407913981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7159579060332591141.post-69853295328100705632008-04-05T17:15:00.000-04:002008-04-05T17:15:00.000-04:00Women can only teach women, or prepubertal childre...Women can only teach women, or prepubertal children.<BR/><BR/>Mdmom,<BR/>What do you guys believe about teaching your own children? I read a couple's teaching once that taught that once their boys were around 12 years old that their mothers could no longer teach them the Bible. Just wondered your thoughts on that?musicmommy3https://www.blogger.com/profile/05737575036149219677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7159579060332591141.post-75536040776398626322008-04-05T14:02:00.000-04:002008-04-05T14:02:00.000-04:00I'll add my two cents about this. Twelve years ag...I'll add my two cents about this. Twelve years ago, this left me fighting mad!! As a female physician, I was quick to get angry about discrimination because of personal experience with it. After some years of experiencing and maturing and understanding myself better, here's my take on it:<BR/><BR/>We are in a very conservative denomination that doesn't allow women pastors or deacons, no women in leadership roles. Women can only teach women, or prepubertal children. Now I was on the Education Committee (that's service, not leadership) and being a thinkin' woman, wanted to know why if women weren't good enough to teach men and teenagers, did we qualify to teach our children and each other? Response: slack-jawed deer-in-the-headlights stares. Now we have couples teaching all our children's Sunday school classes and it is great. The children get to see Christian men practicing their faith and nurturing the next generation. In our modern world men have abdicated their call as spiritual leaders of the family. We women are always more than happy to take up the slack (part of the curse put on Eve/women) but it is bad for everyone. Women do 90% of the work in the church and end up resenting the men for doing little more than occasionally pontificating. If we can pontificate too they will sit back and stop doing even that! This is a huge generalization - forgive me you go-getter men out there. <BR/>But perhaps if we as women realize that holding back at church and discussing it with our own husbands would empower him to lead spiritually and relieve some the burden from us that is rightfully his, everyone's spiritual growth would be enhanced. <BR/> Perhaps that's the other side of the "shameful" coin - that the men have left a void that we feel the need to rush in and fill.MDMOMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08936736520052711470noreply@blogger.com