Monday, February 4, 2008

Ann Coulter Endorses Hillary Clinton?

It's no secret that I find Ann Coulter's political views and public demeanor to be an inflammatory polarizing force, as well as an utter embarrassment to all fair minded people (dems and repubs alike). She shamelessly demonizes democrats and gives the good-hearted, reasonable republicans a bad name by pretending to speak for all them. But I have to concede this...she's freaking unpredicatable. I did not see this one coming...

You know you can't go any further down the right wing, when even John McCain is too "liberal" to get your vote. I respect John McCain and share some commonground with him, but the precise reasons I most likely will not be voting for him are for some of his more "conservative" stances, not because he's too liberal! (I hate to have to brand some of these issues as liberal/conservative because many of the issues trandscend partisanship and find support/opposition on both sides, but when it comes to talking about Ann Coulter, she doesn't leave much room for any other labels, eh?)


catrina said...

I am speechless, I will not be voting for either candidate if it is McCain and Hilary. I do believe that Ann has finally taken the leap into insanity.

keithandjennifer said...

NO, Ann's book sales are probably down and she needed some air time to boost her sales. She really does not represent anyone but herself. I really don't like McCain either. I am still crossing my fingers for Huckabee but I realize it is not looking good. Between McCain and Hillary... well I may just go with Tonya at Christmas to Canada and stay there (Just kidding)...

Tia Lynn said...

I hear you girls. Now just out of curiousity, what is it about John McCain that will keep you from voting for him if he gets the ticket?

Christy Fritz said...

i got an email about this yesterday,
only her...yikes.
i am cheering for barak like crazy, only second to dr. paul.
i couldn't vote for anyone else on the republican side cause of their foreign policy and stance on the war...
obama and paul were the only ones to never vote for the war.
i watched an awesome 2 part video by paul BEFORE the war, warning about some of the things that would happen if we went into undeclared war... let's just say he had some really interesting foresight.

Tia Lynn said...

That's one thing I love about Ron Paul. He doesn't march to the beat of the republican drum. He stuck to his guns about Iraq and he's being proven right.

And while I really like and respect Mike Huckabee, he's made some pandering statement as of late that has made it impossible for me to whole-heartedly support him.

I'm rooting for Obama on the democratic side because if any other republican gets the ticket besides Huckabee, I won't be voting republican this election.

Anonymous said...

And what if its Romney and Hilary? Or McCain and Hilary? I just find it very hard as a Christian to vote for someone with her belief systems and values....and her voting record.

Anonymous said...

btw, even obama has some pretty scary things on his voting record as well.

Tia Lynn said...

If it comes down to Romney and Obama, I will vote for Obama. I’ve studied Obama’s and Clinton’s records and there are items I strongly disagree with, mainly on abortion. But Romney has only become “pro-life” when he decided to run for president. His record is horrible on that front and I don’t believe for one second that he will do anything to make abortion illegal, so if both candidates are virtually pro-choice, then my vote will go to the candidate whose economic policies will reduce abortions, which ain’t Romney. I’m not going to give my vote to someone just because they pander to a Christian base by throwing the word pro-life around with nothing to back it up, and have constantly flip-flopping on the issue since he had his pro-life revelation. I also hate Romney’s stance on the war, torture, economics, education, immigration, and poverty. These are all important values to a lot of Christians, too. So, all around, Romney is the candidate that is furthest from all my values.

Now if it comes down to Hillary and Romney, I might have to vote for the independent candidate. I’m hoping it won’t come down to those two. Although, Hillary Clinton does have a more “conservative” record than most people realize, I just want to get away from the Clinton/Bush dynasties, let’s give someone else a turn. :)

I obviously think voting is important and would completely support making abortion illegal, but ultimately real change isn’t going to come from switching politicians in and out of offices. Real change usually emerges when the people at the bottom rally together and force politicians to take notice. It’s what happened with suffrage, slavery, and civil rights and that’s what’s going to have to happen with abortion too.

Marissa!!! said...

hey tia! i saw that Obama won Georgia! Thank God! :-)

Also, aside from the abortion thing, another thing that is important to look at (that really coincides with abortion) is stem cell research. Highly controversial...and Obama and Hilary are both for it ( embryonic). This is an issue that drives me CRAZY!! Especially because there has been SO much research done that shows that the best stem cells are adult stem cells! So unnecessary to have funding for embryonic stem cell research.

I agree with you that if its Romney/Hilary, i might actually vote independent too. I just don't know if I can in good faith vote for either one of them.

Tia Lynn said...

Yeah, that is going to be a toughy! And I agree about stem cell research. The only reason I don't get that worked about it is because I see it as symptom issue. Since stem cell research mainly (not always) comes from aborted fetuses, even if we stop stem cell research, as long as abortion is legal, those abortions will still take place. So, it doesn't really save any lives to stop stem cell research unless you solve the root cause first, abortion. When abortion becomes illegal then it will take care of the problem of stell cells. If they use stem cells for research, they will only be able to get them from donated miscarriages, etc.

I don’t feel comfortable fully endorsing any of the candidates. I gave Mike Huckabee my obligatory vote because he is closest to my beliefs, being both pro-life and concerned for the poor. I wasn’t crazy about his war policy, but it’s no where near as scary as Romney’s or McCain’s. But I tell you, if Obama was pro-life, I would come out and campaign for him. I love almost every other thing about him.

Here’s the thing I find myself struggling with on a side note. If both candidates are prochoice, do we withhold our vote in hopes of an all or nothing move? Or do we choose the one that will actually reduce abortions? I think in the end I have vote for the person that will end up reducing abortions, because I want as many lives as possible to be saved. So that’s why I would vote for Obama if he were up against Romney, in addition to I agree with his stances on the war, poverty, and other goals.

catrina said...

I am scared of McCain because of his economic policy, which I believe is incredibly dangerous to our country. We will digress so far into debt with him as a Pres. Also he is a fan of pre-emptive war which makes me believe that we would be in Iraq and other places for years and years. His abortion position is moderate and I'm not crazy about his immigration position. I will be voting independent or doing a write in because I could never vote for Obama or Hilary because of abortion, abortion rights of minors, embryonic stem cell research, gun control and other civil liberty issues. Like you I don't just want someone to say they are pro-life but do nothing, however I can not give my vote to someone who will not ban partial birth or regulate abortions at all, also I find it despicable that they would vote against parental notification for minors seeking abortions. If a candidate actually steps outside of Gods laws then I feel that in good conscience I could never vote for them because my vote represents my support and acceptance of them and their policies. I can not do that even though personally I may like them.

Tia Lynn said...

I hear you, Catrina. Christians feel that way with more issues than abortion too though. Many Christians are deeply opposed to war, torture, environmental degradation, extreme poverty, unregulated greed that abounds in big business and corporations, etc. etc. All of these are moral issues, addressed in scripture. All the candidates have major moral blindspots or can't promote their moral leanings because of constitutional limitations, etc. etc. I’ve heard both Clinton and Obama say they would support a ban on partial birth abortion as long as the life of the mother was an exception. But again, I find their legal stances on abortion horrible, but like what they want to do for women so they never have to make the choice of abortion. At the end of the day, I’d take that over a “pro-life” republican candidate that will neither outlaw abortion nor reduce abortions. And then on top of that are pro-war, and preemptive war at’s just too much. Mike Huckabee was the only one I believe about being truly pro-life because his stance was a combo of outlawing abortion and improving situations for women so they can have their babies and adequately raise them.

Marissa said...

one thing about Obama...even if he said he would support a ban on partial birth abortion, his voting record says otherwise. He just voted against banning it in October. Im not saying he's a bad guy. I actually really like him and I think he would be a good president. But it is my conviction that I cannot cast my vote for someone who is against my core values. I know that there are other issues that are SO war, social issues, etc. BUT for me, those issues fall behind things that are morally wrong.

Tia Lynn said...

Oh I know Mariss. You’ve always been super fair to Obama. :) And you absolutely should vote your conscience and your core values. It’s important to remember that other Christians have that same moral outrage over issues like war and poverty, and find those to be morally wrong and can’t honestly in their conscience vote for someone on the opposite side of those issues.

I knew about the Obama thing. I saw an interview with him shortly after he voted against that ban and thats when he said it did not sufficiently secure an exception for a mother’s life endanger and that’s why he opposed it. Who knows if that true? If a miracle happens and Huckabee goes up against Obama, I’d totally stick with Huckabee, but otherwise, I’d have to default to whoever would reduce abortions and fall more in line with all those other issues that are connected to abortion as well as war, poverty, debt relief, environment, education, and healthcare.

Terry said...

I decided to stop by and see what your thoughts were now that the Super Tuesday results are in. As for this post, I agree that Ann Coulter is far too coarse and mean spirited in her rhetoric. McCain loses me on the immigration debate. While I'm not one for breaking up families if American born kids are born to illegals, I do think it would be a mistake to say "just let 'em stay" when there are so many people who have been waiting and trying to get in through legal channels. Now if it McCain vs. Hillary, I will vote for McCain, no question. I've never liked the Clintons (politically speaking), but Bill Clinton's response to Obama's win in S.C. just solidified my belief that the Clintons could care less about the Black community, just used us (well, not me becasue I wouldn't vote for them!) in their never ending quest for power and a spot in the history books! Done ranting now! Oh, I finished the book so I'll email you my thoughts sometime this week. Have a great day.

musicmommy3 said...

What makes you think McCain is "conservative"? (besides the war thing)

Personally, I think he's a RINO (Republican in name only).

I really want to know your thoughts.


keithandjennifer said...

YOu asked why I would not vote for McCain. I think it has been covered but I will say it again. His views on stem cell research, His lack of support behind a marriage amendment and truthfully, his personal life. I mean to divorce your wife for a 20 years-younger lady with money after you wife raised your children and worked for the POW cause while you were a POW just makes me MAD.

catrina said...

Tia, tis true what you say but it is diffucult to then decide if you agree on how to treat and take care of the poor or how to deal with war. War is inevitable and so is poverty and greed, etc. Some people believe that aboloshing minimum wage will increase wages and create jobs and force companies to woo employees and expand our economy. While I'm not sure how I feel about that it just shows how diverse people are in their approach to "helping" It's the whole increase/decrease programs/govt etc. So Obama or Clinton don't appeal to me even if they were morally on the same page as I because universalizing healthcare and education and govt creating more programs isn't the way to go,IMO.

Tia Lynn said...

Ok I’ll go down the line! :)

Terry, I hear you. I don’t hate the Clintons, but they ARE politicians willing to pander and slander to win. Not cool. :)

Jennifer, I hear you. I just wanted to know if the reasons vary between people. But surely he’s more “conservative” than Hillary. :)

Angela, oh I know McCain isn’t far right, he’s definitely more moderate than hardcore conservative. But really, I think his immigration stance got blown out of proportion. It was not amnesty as the Romney crowd keeps saying. That bill was bipartisan and many conservatives supported it, including Bush. I know he’s not good on stem cells, but he favors overturning roe v. wade, supported the ban on partial birth abortion, and doesn’t want public funding for abortions while they are legal. He’s for all the normal republican platforms: reduce spending, smaller government, lower taxes, secure the borders, etc. etc. If he continues the war like he wants, I don’t see how he’ll accomplish any of those things, but I definitely think he’s a far cry from a liberal as people like ann coulter and rush limbaugh say he is. He’s a moderate. I most likely won’t be voting for him, but not because he’s a “liberal” in disguise. :)

Catrina, you are TOTALLY right. There are wonderful people on all sides that want to end war and reduce poverty but have COMPLETELY different thoughts on how it needs to be done. I would never accuse a Christian of being less concerned about those issues just because they didn’t vote the same way as me or don’t hold the same political views as I do. Likewise, people who are sincerely pro-life differ completely in the way they think it would best eradicate abortion, so I wouldn’t necessarily question their concern because they don’t always vote republican. We each have convictions, not only on issue but how to approach those issues and sometimes I feel like we need to allow each other the freedom to vote our conscience, even if the results aren’t always the same.

As far as minimum wage, if you think taking it away and leaving it up to big businesses to pay fair wages to people on their own, you have a screw loose. :) Love ya!

Marissa said...

"Like you I don't just want someone to say they are pro-life but do nothing, however I can not give my vote to someone who will not ban partial birth or regulate abortions at all, also I find it despicable that they would vote against parental notification for minors seeking abortions. If a candidate actually steps outside of Gods laws then I feel that in good conscience I could never vote for them because my vote represents my support and acceptance of them and their policies. I can not do that even though personally I may like them."

Well put Catrina. That is exactly what I was trying to say...but you said it SO much better.

"It’s important to remember that other Christians have that same moral outrage over issues like war and poverty, and find those to be morally wrong and can’t honestly in their conscience vote for someone on the opposite side of those issues."
I understand what you are saying Tia. I know those are VERY important issues that should be important to us as Christians and our values. (especially the poverty thing). But i will say this...war isnt always black and white, and neither is the correct way to deal with the poverty issue. Like Catrina said, each candidate has a different idea of how they feel would be the best way to tackle it. But even if you disagree with their ideas, it doesnt mean they are morally wrong. HOWEVER, abortion is not a gray area.SO if a candidate is for something like partial-birth abotion, that to me, changes who they are as candidate and even a person. Partial-birth or any kind of abortion is murder, plain and simple..whether or not a person was raped, or there is danger to the mothers life. Im not trying to be self-righteous because I cannot imagine dealing with something like that ( getting pregnant from being raped.) I know that women in those situations agonize over the decision of whether or not to have an abortion. And I would never pretend to say that I am above that and I would NEVER have an abortion, no matter what because honestly, I have never been in that situation. its easy to say what you WOULD do, and I would like to think that I would make the right decision, but the reality is that I am a sinful human being. My mom had an abortion before she got pregnant with me...and she said she would NEVER get one. She said not a day goes by that she doesnt think about and grieve for that child she killed. She also said that something died inside of her that day and it is one of the most inhumane things a person can do.

I understand what you say about voting for the person that is going to reduce the number of abortions, I agree with that in theory. However, its hard to believe that someone will really be that concerned about it when they vote in favor of partial-birth abortions. Doesnt seem like it would be much of a priority.

Okay, im done. I hope you dont misunderstand what I am trying to say. Typing things can come off the wrong way and my laziness prohibits me from really explaining myself. But we're best friends. You know my heart and the way I feel about all this :) Like I said before, if Barack Obama won, I would support him as a president, because like you, I agree with him on many issues and I like his passion. I think he genuinely cares about the people and what WE need in this country ( unlike the Clintons, who I believe, think everything is a game and all they care about are their numbers in the polls)

Tia Lynn said...

What?! We don’t have the exact same opinion on everything? We can’t be friends any longer! 13 years in the trash! :)

I totally get what your saying and don’t think it’s coming off bad at all. You know my own story. My mom was on the table ready to abort me before she had a change of heart. So I am passionately against abortion and think it should be illegal. I think it’s disgusting how young teenagers are rushed into abortion clinics without knowing all the facts of what they are doing or the full weight and consequences of their desperate decision. That’s why it makes me furious abortion is used by politicians to play on people’s convictions and trap them into voting for them without following through. My conscience is not at ease by giving my vote to “pro-life” politicians unless they have a pro-life record or commit to SPECIFIC measures: such as appointing pro-life judges, supporting states that require women to look at ultrasounds before getting an abortion etc.

And rest assured, if it was between someone like Obama and a candidate that was REALLY pro-life (like Huckabee) I would always pick the pro-life candidate.

I totally agree that war is not always a black and white issue (or how to handle poverty) that can be used as barometer to measure someone’s faith. All I meant was that there are Christians that FOR THEM, those issues become non-negotiables to their own conscience. War is no longer between two willing armies. Bombs, chemical warfare, and other weapons end up killing civilians, including women, children, and babies, and destroy entire communities and countries for DECADES and GENERATIONS. So, there are Christians who truly believe this to be a moral scandal (and I am with them on that). As a result, there are many committed Christians who are pacifists, others adhere to a just war theory, etc. For them it would morally wrong and completely violate their convictions to vote for a president that plans on preemptive war, the escalation of militarism, the use of torture and violence, etc. etc.

While I totally disagree with the pro-choice camp that rationalizes their stance on abortion by saying “oh life doesn’t begin til birth,” or “life doesn’t begin until the baby can survive outside the womb,” or even moderate pro-choicers that say “life doesn’t begin until there is a heartbeat,” I DO think that most pro-choice people care about the out of control abortion rate and want it heavily reduced. I hate their assertion that it’s a woman’s choice to begin with or that the government has no business being involved in reproductive matters, etc, but people like Obama have strong records of supporting policies that would help reduce abortions: job security for pregnant women and maternity leave, fair wages, healthcare, poverty reduction, adequate childcare and housing, and access to a decent education.

These factors are a HUGE in reducing abortions when we consider the number one group of women getting abortions are UNDER 15, over 90 percent of women who get abortions are single (with no father in sight, or won’t be in sight in they choose to have the baby), and are living well below the poverty line. So, that’s why I would pick Obama over someone like Romney who clearly has no intention of outlawing abortion.

But just to be clear, I would totally choose a proven pro-life candidate, and only go with the reducing abortions stance if both candidates are virtually pro-choice.

This whole discussion has been wonderful. And it didn’t even get ugly! I love you ladies and respect all of your perspectives and convictions. Your words have inspired me to put together a post on abortion prior to roe v. wade. So that’ll be coming soon when I get some time!